See the Energy Nerd's blog on this topic if you want to argue.). Do we have any options for finding out the information ourselves? Icynene Classic Plus 0 is a class 0 fire rated product that has accomplished a surface spread of class 1 (test range class 1 is the best to class 4 being the most exceedingly terrible and generally hazardous). Spray foam has been used for decades, however, there have been increasing spray foam insulation problems overtime with the use of this type of insulation. I would like to clean it out and switch to spray foam insulation. This will cause the installer to adjust his heat when installing the foam as the temp changes thru out the day. Are you able to share what you've learned about poly spray foam as it relates to health risks post application? there is not a health rick unless you have off ratio uncured foam that has not mixed properly. Some say the foam will act as a barrier from bad air in the crawl space (we already have an ezbreath 'air exchange' unit and plastic vapor barrier on the crawl space floor to help reduce basement and crawlspace humidity) Others (my law friends who work for NYC) say poly foam is not healthy to have under your room where you sleep. I've heard that foam insulation blown into walls breaks down after some time into dust. I would have to agree with you on all your points. We live in middle TN and had our house foamed last year. We are providing site visits on request, as well as surveys and installations, and we want to reassure our customers that the team are closely following all processes and guidelines. The areas that I thought were good are now separating from the structural members leaving voids. 2) If my spray company refuses to rectify the problem, will getting a building inspector help? As this example illustrates, it's important to seal the envelope completely. My wife and daughters are chemically sensitive, so I'm trying to figure out how to minimize the fumes coming into the house. Also, even good installers have bad days, but if someone comes in behind them with a measuring probe and a Blower Door, there will be fewer sub-par foam jobs. Todd, nice to hear from you! No, there are no Icynene hazards or dangers presented from spraying over electrical wiring. The poor application of spray foam insulation by an … We were asked to remove foam from a number of attic spaces, I went down price the job and was surprised at how thick and thin it was in parts, some parts pulled away with no problem, others parts were stubborn and in all areas left crumbs of it stuck to the rafters. Cans the 2 pound foam be sprayed on top of the existing foam, or should the existing foam be removed. the foam is absolutely a health risk in its raw forms before it is mixed and cured. Spray foam installers didn't understand the building envelope and sprayed either too little or too much. You’ll be glad knowing your investment will carry you years into the future and continue to deliver … I've seen this only once, and it was with closed cell foam, but I've heard of it happening with open cell foam, too. I would like to know how I can get proof that the product carries the manufacturers lifetime warranty, or has it been installed improperly throughout the entire house. How would you know? I mean built in 1942 NO insulation. Whatever the cause, it's not a good thing. Allison, I was a student at southface last august when you were teaching with mike. Closed cell foam doesn't fill the cavity, so you've got to spot check in a bunch of places to make sure you don't get shorted. (I'm not going to dive into the energy code here, but these numbers apply to many climate zones, the latter being allowed under the UA tradeoffs rule. In complex houses, seeing exactly where the building envelope is can be a challenge. I'm sure things like that happen; I just haven't seen it yet. Unfortunately, your sister's home is not one of them. Several builders are cautious about using foam insulation and/or a closed attic. Hope you and Parker are doing well. In fact, that was my first line in the article. Allison--would be very interested in your take on the GHG issues of foams, which have received lots of smart commentary recently. If you are going to spend the extra money for this great product and service, you deserve a great job done right! Question… Does anyone have experience with BASF’s Walltite Eco? Each of the four problem areas you cover are directly attributable to the installer, not spray foam. until that happens then you will have idiots with spray rigs ruining peoples homes and ruining the market for honest foam contractors that know how to price a job fairly and complete it correctly. He seems like a nice guy promising to do whatever it takes to fix any problems. Tina, encapsulation is better than spraying foam under the floor if you can do it. Bad Spray Foam Insulation. Well we are here to alleviate all the misconceptions. Seems to me I can't both minimize fumes AND increase cross-ventilation. I will most likely be doing my 2x4 exterior walls on the second floor from outside, upgrading the siding, replacing the backerboard with osb, so should I leave the old vapour barrier there, should I leave a gap btwn foam and inside drywall or a gap btwn foam and osb on outside. I don't know what to do about the crawl space. Where as with Icynene spray foam insulation … What about the quality of the canned sprayfoam around the perimeter? When spray foam goes bad, it’s hard not to feel a bit sick. The safety of all our customers is our top priority, therefore we have put various measures in place to ensure all the government guidelines are adhered to. Even better, you can test for leaks with a fog machine. Last month the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) released a new action plan for a key … For example, when encapsulating an attic by foaming along roof rafters and decking, the entire attic must be sealed to bring the attic inside the thermal boundary. Regarding time of separation, I don't recall how long it took on the house where I saw it, but I think it happens fairly quickly, as in hours. But anyway, you probably won't want to publish my comment but people really should be aware of what can go wrong. Service Experts Heating & Air Conditioning. You will be spending a lot of money on a product that likely won't perform as it should. To highlight a few: architect Jesse Thompson's comments on Tom's Good vs Bad post on Energy Circle, the very thorough piece by Alex Wilson on Green Building Advisor and Michael Anschel's cautionary diatribe on Remodeling. Still smelled a little bad but that's gone away over time. It was applied to a masonary wall. Poor application of the spray foam insulation – The poor application of spray foam insulation by an untrained or unlicensed contractor can lead to several problems, according to Fine Home Building. Different materials expand and contract at different rates when the temperature changes, and the more it changes, the more they change. - Homes insulated with Tiger Foam will start saving money the day you install your spray foam. The problem you saw with the closed cell foam pulling away like that is due to the heat of the foam was to hot. I think maybe the contractor came back and sprayed cellulose on top of the foam. And one that stands behind it's service with a guarantee should help homeowners avoid these problems. Any poly spray foam birth defects or other issues to be concerned with during pregnancy? Spray foam isn't an inherently bad product, but it's pretty easy to botch if the hired company is inexperienced. Also, as Sean said, the home energy rater who inspects and tests your house will make sure that the builder and insulator deal with it properly. Evergreen Power is a licensed and accredited Icynene contractor in the UK. I did this partly because it's worthy of an article all by itself, but mainly I didn't include it because, despite all the warnings the two sides issue about the other, I've never personally seen a problem caused by using open cell where they should've used closed cell or vice versa. We would first like to state that not all insulation materials are the same; with Icynene being new to the market, it is regularly misunderstood and compared with other related materials like Polyurethane (which is where most of the spray insulation nightmares you’ve heard about come from). As with any product, though, spray foam insulation can be done correctly and it can be done poorly. In the wall that I have open the sheet fall out as soon as they are uncovered. Has a measure of safety around high-pressure spray equipment. I've done ratings and consultations for several contractors in the San Francisco Bay Area, and the difference in spray foam subs can be night and day! It's been an on going nightmare. Sandi. We have a 22 year old home located in southeastern georgia where the humidity is very high. Air Barrier - Leaks cost you a bundle. This is mainly based on older insulation methods, such as Polyurethane, and modern insulation alternatives, such as Icynene, offer an economical and air quality improving alternative. Moisture generated indoors or that infiltrates into the home is responsible for the bulk of the moisture in an attic insulated with spray foam on the underside of the roof sheathing. – The Truth Revealed (2019). What is Spray Foam Insulation. We’ve probably sprayed foam in 2,000 homes by now. Hello, thanks for the information. There are hundreds of thousands of homes with spray foam insulation that work well. If your foam pulled away just a little bit, Jamie, and they were able to fix it with just a little bit of touching up, then it wasn't as bad as the house where I saw this problem. If your ever in Northern CA. Here in Texas, heat and humidity (except for the past few years of drought) are a continuing problem. In the past 2 weeks our floors have started buckling all over. Foam is the worst buy ever. We have a vented crawl space and the old insulation is drooping from moisture and the wood is wet. This year every time it rains I'm getting water bubles behind the primer paint on outside and the paint eventually peels off down to the bare metal?? Check out this article Chemicals in spray polyurethane foam: How can something so toxic be considered green? But I shouldn't bother spraying if the plan is to leave the soffet vents open. Should you find yourself in the Bay Area any time soon, please drop me a line, and I can take you to some high quality installations, as well as enlighten you on the merits of open cell foam. Unfortunately, good average thickness doesn't cut it. Spray foam insulation provides an airtight seal that is difficult to break. It reduces dangers of respiratory distress as allergies, asthma and certain sensitivities can be caused by natural airborne irritants... by choosing loft spray foam insulation, your home will be sealed from a wide range of pollutants in the air and helps prevent the growth of mould. It's not foolproof to install, and its R-value per inch is pretty much the same as open cell spray foam - when it's installed correctly, which is almost never. You can see my comments at the end of his article. Like this article? Spray foam installers missed some of the air leakage sites. Last question: How long does it take for foam to separate (last problem mentioned) if it's going to separate? They fixed this. Is this normal? And she did not have to clean up one speck of dust during or after the spraying. Unfortunately, your sister's home is not one of them. Some of the Icynene Spray Foam Insulation Advantages. I think it is a bad idea. Her attic spaces were sprayed and the foam is actually pretty, and I was in her attic 6-7 days after it was sprayed and could hardly smell anything when I stuck my face up to the foam. We just bought our first house. Which would you recommend? exposed roof deck, and am also concerned about the air pockets/gaps that exist behind every baffle. I am sure, we all wondered how safe is spray foam insulation or questioned Is spray foam insulation dangerous or toxic? The video below is from a house near Charleston, South Carolina that I visited recently, and you'll see that the homeowner in this case didn't get his money's worth. The photo below shows how the spray foam pulled away from the studs. Hi all. It has also been approved by the Energy Saving Trust, as a 100% water blown product, containing no HCFC or harmful chemicals. I had open cell foam sprayed on the back side of my garage door because is was very hot in summer, it worked great stays cool even when sun beats down on the door,done about 3yrs ago. Thanks for answering. Thanks for your comment, Dennis. What is Spray Foam? 'That is nasty stuff' they say. Around ten years ago, individuals related Polyurethane Spray Foam Insulation as an obscure, untested type of home insulation, which could be a risk to mortgage holders of the property. As you can see in the floor photo and both roofs shown in this article, spraying foam over the joists/rafters isn't common practice with a lot of spray foam contractors. When it comes to the safety and toxicity of foam spray insulation, the real issue behind this all is Isocyanates. I have closed cell spray insulation sprayed on my attic roof, soffits for a closed system. Do you think it was the foam popping loose from the studs? Spray foam comes in two flavors, open cell and closed cell, and provides both parts of the building envelope - the insulation and the air barrier. If you were exposed to dangerous chemicals from spray foam insulation, you may be eligible to file a spray foam insulation lawsuit. Great article and thread here. But don’t use TigerFoam, HandiFoam, and all other 2-part builder-applied foams. It is sealed up inside the wall. They then reinstalled too thick again in some spots and removed again. The crawl space and all of the exterior walls have open cell foam that is deteriorated, or shrunken away from the structure. I don't know the details, but I've heard it could result from a bad batch of chemicals, improper mixing, or too high a temperature. (See my article on flat or lumpy insulation performance.). Since closed cell foam has a higher R-value per inch, installers generally spray 2" in walls and 3" in rooflines to meet the energy code requirements of R-13 and R-19, respectively. Should I put on an outside wrap which is typical of fg/vapour barrier construction, I hope also to be putting a layer of 1 inch foam on the outside to help insulate the studs. Can someone give me advice on this? I do know of one person who had it removed from her crawl space because she was convinced it caused her dog to get sick, but I know only what she told me. The foam guy said that it needed ventilation, so completely sealing the attic wouldn't be a good idea. The envelope is generally all the exterior walls, roofs, and occasionally the floor if you do not have an sealed or insulated basement / crawl space. what does it mean when your closed cell insulation goes from cream to a dark cclor? Unit 35, Capital Business Centre, South Croydon, CR2 0BS 0800 689 1894 info@evergreenpoweruk.com. Is that true? You will most likely have comfort and efficiency problems. The local foam installer that I used here in Hilton Head told me he looked for some peeling back of the foam. I'm sitting in a hotel, 2 of my cats are in boarding, and we've all been exposed to off ratio foam vapors as well as the old celluose insulation dust that was spread through out my whole house when I let the same people come in to remove the off ratio foam (upon the advice of the manufacturer's rep). They removed what they told me was the bad insulation and in the process cut many electrical wires. Every product has its pitfalls, and spray foam is no exception. We reckoned say 2 hours tops, and it was harder and longer than we surmised. The spray foam industry should be controlled and regulated by the same standards, testing and inspections that framing ,electrical and plumbing are. The problem was that the installer was doing his first spray foam job ever, and the thickness of the insulation varied from zero (visible roof deck) to about 9". Unfortunately, the spray crew didn't speak English(at least not to me) and were kinda lazy, so they ended up spraying over some can fixtures from the kitchen below that were not insulation-contact rated. Also installers have to be aware that as the sun rises and the temp in attics rises the subtrates get hotter as well. We are cold! It is a fixer upper. In the photo below, that wall with foam all over it has conditioned space on both sides. I've had an article on thermal bridging taking shape in my head for a while now, and I'll certainly mention this aspect of it. Personal protective clothing and gear ensures that the spray foam applicator: Icynene items have the best safety record that exceeds expectations; this record spans over more than 25 years and covers more than 350,000 insulation done using Icynene. The health and safety of our licensed spray foam contractors is as equally important as the health and safety of our customers. Can cement block crawl space walls be sprayed with foam insulation? I'm very glad we didn't use the other foam as even that much outgassing of a petrochemical could have sent my wife to the hospital. We specialise in insulation and heating solutions. It can ruin your whole home investment.. Go natural. Yes, these are mainly installer issues, but as I said to Dennis, you can't separate spray foam insulation from its installation. It is toxic and gasses off for over a year. I cant seam to find a installed that wants to install no more than 2 inches, and thats not near my R-valve for South Carolina (Lake Greenwood)please send any advice that will help me to see what installer will perform the correct job. *Please note: The information in this section has been stated directly by the manufacturer, you can find the resource here. Poor application of the spray foam insulation. If you're chemically sensitive, it's probably not a good idea to get it installed, but it's also not a good idea to breathe musty air from the crawl space either. Subscribe to our blog! They then installed it for a 3rd time. What do you mean by "our AC units require fresh air ventilation"? We are debating between the "encapulation" method or the spray foam method to repair this issue. With open cell you can go back and touch up those areas alot easier. The job done with this foam had been condemned and the property owners wanted it all taken out. He said that sometimes just letting the hose idle for a while causes the foam to overheat and pull away like that. Should we have any concerns about doing it "upside down" and not spraying the foam directly to the underside/sheathing of the roof? I have been looking to have closed cell insulation added through out my attic space. I haven't seen the full report, but based on the summary he wrote on the Green Building Advisor website, I question the science. Use spray foam insulation … I inspected the entire crawl space of the house and noticed approximately (5) areas that were seperating and a couple areas where the foam didn't adhere to the block. There are also homes that have been ruined by bad … It just has to be done right by someone who knows what they are doing. Should this be done before or after the osb? Thanks... once the foam is installed correctly, it is a inert plastic not much different than the foam cushions you sit on. I was hoping I could get some advice. We have a split system unit (actually 5) with the heat being propane. Some people have the mistaken impression that if you get spray foam in your house, your home will outperform all others. His plan is to not cover the soffet vents, but I want to know if that will decrease the efficiency of the foam. any thoughts? Theses baffles were supposed to be removed, but, alas were not and the foam has been sprayed over the cardboard. “Homeowners who are exposed to isocyanates and other spray foam chemicals in vapours, aerosols, and dust during or after the installation process “run the risk of developing asthma, sensitization, lung damage, other respiratory and breathing problems, and skin and eye irritation.". My concern is the walls that are not capable of being visually inspected because of sheetrock. If there is one thing I’ve learned, it’s this: Homeowners are concerned about the lingering spray foam … I guess those 2 hours of sleep I get each night are just too much. He said he would check the batch numbers and let us know. 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